Very interesting.You know:2Ti.3:1-This know also,in the last days PERILOUS times shall come.Why? 2Timothy 2-5 give us extense list why perilous times. And Re.2:9&24-29 reveal:9I know thy works, tribulation and poverty(but thou art rich)and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not,but are synagogue of Satan. 24-But unto you I say, as many as have not this doctrine and have not known the depths of Satan,as they speak;I will put upon you none other burden.
25That which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26And he that overcomes,and keeps my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.
29He that hath an ear,let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
About Satan,the MAN of sin,son of perdition,the Word of GOD reveals:Is.14:13-14:
13Thou hast said in thine heart:
(1)I will ascend into heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8),I will exalt my throne above the stars of GOD(above GOD's stars?See Daniel 12:3, always be careful,perilous times now,also according Re.12:4.Take a look):
(2)I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north:(Why Satan intends to sit in the sides of north?Ps.48:2 reveals why:Beautiful for situation,the joy of the whole earth,is mount Zion,on the sides of the north,the city of the great King-JESUS-
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will be like the most High(clouds? Revelation 12:14& Isaiah 60:8).Satan,a former Cherub, ruler of Eden,intends to be equal GOD.Ez.28:1-10 reveal:2Thus saith the Lord God;Thine heart is lifted up,and thou say,I am a God,I sit in the seat of GOD,in the midst of the seas(nations);thou art a MAN,not God,though thou set thine heart as God's heart:
I will bring strangers,the terrible of the nations,against thee:they shall draw the Sword against the beauty of thy wisdom.
Now, even now, from now on, what will happen it's only and only the Judgment of GOD. It's a matter evil ones to render an account according to the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
In my vision, I see our Lord JESUS revealing through His angel- Revelation 6:14-17- the LITERAL fulfillment of Scripture you have quoted and interpreted it from Isaiah 2:21.
Revelation 6:14-17
14 And the heaven (heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 and 2Peter 3:7) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were MOVED out of their places. (Every religious, and politic, and economic, and social, and military structures will be moved/dissolved/destroyed, including the Dispensations of the OT and NT(heavens)will be dissolved). IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the Great Day(Lord's Day-seventh and last Day) of His wrath is come( Revelation 11:18); and who shall be able to stand?
The Word of GOD reveals unto us: Hebrews 4:12-13:
12 The Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do (we must render an account)
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD.
The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing. If the believers(each one) keep GOD's Word in the heart, it means GOD is in him, and he has Life because GOD is Life.
JESUS said: John 5:39-40:->39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have ETERNAL life(the Word is GOD,God is Life):and they are they which testify of me-JESUS.40 And ye will not come to me,that ye might have life?JESUS said: John 11: 26:Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.Believest thou this?Phi.3:20-21:-> 20 Our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ:21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body(this is not a magic,it is worked,understand),according to the working whereby He-JESUS-is able even to subdue all things unto himself.(as Luke 20:35-36.Take a look) .
Furthermore they have Light.Jo.1:4 In him-JESUS-was Life;and the Life was the Light of men.1Jo.1:5-7: ->5...GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all.6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him,and walk in darkness,we lie, and do not the Truth:7 But if we walk in the Light,s he is in the light,we have fellowship one with another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Corinthians 15:51-54
51Behold,I shew you a mystery;We shall not all sleep,but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment...at the last trump:for the trumpet shall sound,and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption,and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,and this mortal shall have put on immortality,then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,Death is swallowed up in victory.
Here's below is what JESUS said to John in Patmos through His angel (in fact an Archangel- Revelation 1:12-13)
Revelation 21:3-8
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 and Philippians 3:20-21) saying, Behold, the TABERNACLE of GOD is with MEN( Revelation 11:15-18), and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and GOD Himself shall be with them, and be their GOD.
4 And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. --> Come up hither,
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
JESUS is the KING of kings - kings made by He Himself - Re.1:8 and 5:10, and LORD of the lords. Michael is a lord, a Prince of GOD. JESUS sent him to the isle of Patmos-Re.1:1. Revelation 22:8-9 clarify: 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down TO WORSHIP before the feet of the ANGEL which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship GOD.
JESUS is God- Hebrews 1:8, not an angel, nor Archangel. JESUS and Michael are two distincts persons. By the way, Michael the Archangel fought / contended against the Devil when he disputed about the body of Moses (by allegory we may understand Israel was the body of Moses), and now again he shall contend with the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, fighting/ disputing about the Body od Christ: now, even now, from now, in the time of Apocalypse, Satan now called red Dragon, he shall be cast out from this current heavenly environment- Ephesians 1:3-8- into the earth, and his messengers shall be also cast out with him.
Michael shall cast Satan into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.
For our conversation is in heaven, you believe? If not, come up here.
Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. From whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. (This is a process, a wor of our Lord JESUS, not a magic)
Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Ephesians 1:38 and 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and Daniel 12:3 Take a look.
Reading scriptures: Part One of main study how NOT to read the Bible
In previous postings I have discussed many different applications to the scripture. In reality an atheist can gain much from an academic exercise in a literary study as anyone else to deduce historical narratives that correspond with archaeology or an English professor can find beauty in the acrostic patterns of poetry in the Psalms and other hidden places in scripture.
Luke 12:48-50 indicates that more is required to those given much (my paraphrasing). If we are searching for truth it is one thing; but if we claim we are Christians and want to play games cherry picking to avoid tough verses related to our conduct; or just seeking "pleasant" scripture snippets then we are doing what one well known media advertises (I'll leave that to the audience to figure that out). I am convinced one of the most dangerous trends are those who are knowingly living in rebellion and yet claiming "authority" to "name and claim; blab and grab; etc". Promises in scripture are conditional; and even those that are UNCONDITIONAL related to promises in the New Covenant are based on HIS accepting us in the beloved ( Ephesians 1:6). However you slice it on terminology related to Predestination or "free will" it is clear that God chooses to reveal His Son to the elect ( Matthew 11:27). Just WHO the elect is; and whether God determines that ahead of time to those who will respond is beyond the scope of this study. The same idea is related to the PLAN of salvation; all those saved come to Christ the same way whether we consider the plan in general or the individual conforming to it. In short we only come to Christ one way through the Son; and as Romans 10:9 states that involves a verbal affirmation and a heart change which truly loves and embraces the Lord. Godly sorrow is associated with repentance; worldly sorrow leads to death ( 2 Cor. 7:10).
Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16Matthew 12:28Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:71 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 1:2Galatians 1:3Ephesians 1:2Ephesians 6:23Philippians 1:2Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1Genesis 1:31Proverbs 16:4Isaiah 45:18Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
Proverbs 29:1 KJ21 He that, being often reproved, stiffeneth his neck shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
This is the fate of all the unregenerate who do not repent. A prime example is Pharoah during Moses' extensive dialogue with him warning of his fate defying God's will when it came to the sacrifice that his people desired in the desert. One should note that it was only requested for a short trip for this ceremony at first but eventually Pharoah drove them out and yet once again attempted to capture them to enslave them before his armies were destroyed in the Red Sea. Pharoah himself may not have been there but it seems his fate was sealed.
We see evidences such as 2 Chronicles 13:10-13 where Manasses repented after doing horrible abominations in the land; but we also see verses that state that even though they pray to God those devoted to destruction will not be heard ( Jeremiah 11:11 and Micah 3:4).
In seeing these examples; we ought to not test God as they were warned in the wilderness. We are warned not to rebuke a fool either ( Prov. 9:8). We should listen to God the first time; and realize that He chastens all He loves; and the opposite therefore indicates that without that discipline we are not His own as we see comparing Peter in the Bible to Judas Iscariot. All of us have a death sentence due to sin; but some choose to come to their end sooner through particularly evil lifestyles and behaviors.
No amount of pride brings joy; and our minds can only find solace in being left alone in our state once we have lost all pleasure in worldly things due to aging. Proverbs 5:14 talks about being almost in ruin in the congregation due to sins; but that is preferable to pining away alone; for Solomon saw this reality also in Ecclesiastes seeing that all things apart from God were vanity. In short; a saved man sees His old life crucified; new life in Christ and the Body of believers his adopted family (see Ephesians 1:23).
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19Isaiah 46:10Psalm 33:11Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
Thank you for your reply, yes, Genesis 3:15 tells us He will come by the seed of a woman, and that is exactly what we see happen in Mary. My understanding of John 1:1-5 is John's prolog at the start of his gospel like Genesis 1:1 is a prolog to the rest of Genesis 1. John starts with, In the beginning.
I see this beginning as the coming of the Messiah/Christ the beginning of Jesus's ministry because in John 1:6, John goes to John the Baptist as the witness of the one who was to come, the Light that darkness did not comprehend. This is the start of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit and God made Him the Messiah/Christ, Acts 2:36.
Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24, His role or ministry was to fulfill the law and the prophets in confirming the new covenant by His death and resurrection from the dead to pay the price for our sins. Daniel 9:27 is also about the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry but that is another topic. Jesus was the Messiah that was prophesied to come in Daniel. As I have discussed with Chris my understanding is Jesus was the beginning of the plan of God and like John 1:10 it is through Him not by Him.
Jesus, God' Son is first in God's plan of creation, and everything was created in and through Him and Jesus was begotten in the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Colossians 1:20. I know you may also not agree with that but that is how I understand, it is God the Father who is the creator.
The light was the word of God that dwelt in Jesus, the glory of the Father that dwelt in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 4:6.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
What my Lord JESUS said is that ' they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels (Example: Genesis 19:1-4. Take a look); and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
And Paul Apostle revealed: Philippians 3:20-21:
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8. Take a look. Are you in heaven or not? Or you don't know?); from whence also WE LOOK for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE OUR VILE BOVY(this is not a magic, this is a process, it is(will be) worked) that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the WORKING whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
And Paul said more: 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 and 51-55:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD( Revelation 11:15-18), even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For JESUS must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
51 Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all BE CHANGED, (not by magic, but a process)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (in the last seven years of the world of Devil- Revelation 11:15 and 18.Take a look), at the last Trump ( 1Thessalonians 4:16 combined with Daniel 12:1-3.Take a look):for the Trumpet shall sound( Revelation 11:15) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Colossians 1:15-18 as in John 1:1 what beginning is John writing about, this gives a different understanding, In Colossians what creation is Paul writing about if we look at it as the start of all creation, the angels the counsels of heaven as we see in Job 38, they were before this earth or is Paul writing about the new creation. Is Paul referring to Jesus before He was crucified? Or is Paul referring to the risen Christ? In Christ is the resurrected Christ not the Christ when He first came.
One other thing and Giannis can let us know if I am correct or not in verse 16, by Him, the Greek is en auto meaning in Him as we see in 2 Corinthian 5:17 Ephesians 1:4,9 Colossians 2:6 to be in the risen Christ. Paul is talking about the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 to be in Christ is to be a new creature/creation and reconciliation, this is this world and in heaven as we see things in heaven is as bad as on this earth and Jesus Christ is to make all new.
Hebrews 1:3-4 Jesus was made much better than the angels, this after He was totally obedient died on the cross and raised from the dead and ascended to heaven above all that is in heaven and earth. and in Him all will be made new. He was made means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do. Matt. 28:18John 3:35John 5:26-27John 6:39 what Jesus did and had was given to Him from the Father.
I know this is short, I may be away for a while but hope to reply more soon.
Thanks Giannis for sharing in this. I can agree to Romans 8:29, " that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"; that clearly 'prototokos' here refers to Christ being our 'Forerunner' leading those who are saved by His Blood, into the new Birth He has provided for us; i.e. we follow Jesus, Who is the Firstborn among us.
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
I suppose a question thread isn't kosher with a sequel. Anyway; there are many scriptures that can be used to point out each part of the TULIP acronym; for instance T-Total Depravity We could quote Jeremiah 17:9; O-Unconditional Election ( Ephesians 1:4); L-Limited Atonement ( John 10:26-27); I-Irresistable Grace ( Acts 9:3-6 the "Damascus Road" experience) and finally P-Perseverance of the Saints ( Romans 8:30).
Many of these themes are interchangeable with the verses quoted. The terminology isn't the greatest; as people can indeed grieve the Spirit as scripture indicates. I believe limited atonement is also the hardest thing to prove; I would say that "Effectual grace" is a much better term.
I wrote what I did in the first posting on purpose as many tend to have a sort of pride about which Reformer is their favorite or obsess on the subject making a doctrine be above the author and finisher of our faith Christ Himself. We can't fit our theological premise neatly with all scriptures in human understanding. I take; for example the politically incorrect stance that free will doesn't intimidate God with His predestination plans. There are distinct advantages to understanding these doctrines however.
1. It explains why those in our families and others we are close to and hear the Gospel for years never become believers.
2. It shows how God draws His elect from before a confession of faith (preserves our lives until coming to salvation) for believers.
3. It allows us to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Cor. 13:5) so that we can indeed claim His promises as something we actually possess because of a saving faith rather than "decisional regeneration" a term where people make a confession but their hearts are not in it.
I mentioned on an old posting how a small group split because God grants repentance ( 2 Tim. 2:25; etal). Some didn't want to preach the need to repent; although God grants the desire we must bear fruit and change our ways
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:101 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
I will send this to you as I feel we consider each other as brothers. I thought I was clear when I ended my conversation about the Trinity, but it does not sound like that is not understood with the comments I have read.
I will ask this question not to stump anyone, but it is one I have not ever answered.
First, I would like to say Jesus was before any creation, He is the beginning of creation, and all was created after Him and through Him, but it was in God's plan of creation that Jesus being appointed heir to, Heb 1:1-4. Jesus was the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and in the fullness of time He was conceived, Ephesians 1:9-10. There were two Adams and Jesus is the last Adam both Adams who were men who came into this world without sin. The first sinned and the last lived perfect totally obedient to the Father.
Question, Jesus was conceived and brought forth the only begotten Son of God to die for the sins of mankind. If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted, James 1:13, but it is clear Jesus was tempted as we are, Hebrews 4:15 and He died shedding His blood to cover our sins.
Can God die? If not, how are our sins covered? Could the works of the devil be undone if God fulfilled the law that was made for man? The law was made for man and a man had to live without sin to fulfill it. What is the meaning of Acts 2:24 if Jesus was not a man?
Sorry to send this to you but anyone can answer, Love you brother.
God the Father granted Christ all authority on heaven and earth which sets forth the ultimate example of how God worked to reward the perfect obedience of Christ. It also goes against Satan's offer to worship him to have such authority. ( Matthew 28:18; Matthew 4:9).
One may question how Christ; who Himself brought all of creation into existence would have such a destiny. ( Colossians 1:16-20). In that situation; one may say that He was the Person to do the work that the Father had planned; and His agent as it were was the Spirit of God (hovering over the waters as it states in Genesis 1:2).
We realize in this that no servant is greater than his master. ( John 15:20). We all are nothing without Him; yet He will likewise exalt the humble with positions to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. In some sense we can say that Christ emptied Himself so that He could be our High Priest suffering in all ways but without sin. ( Heb. 4:15). As the second Adam He was able to keep from the temptations of the devil to fall unlike Adam; as well as fulfilling the law perfectly which no man could do. ( 1 Cor. 15:45-47).
It is hard to get our mind around these facts; that He who created all things would start from conception as a helpless babe and end as a sheep to the slaughter ( Isaiah 53:7); the Lamb of God which will forever be ascribed to His Name. Of course all of us who are saved are adopted sons; ( Ephesians 1:5) part of the eternal lineage of the rightous (as contrasted with the earth dwellers in Revelation 11:10).
Christ is returning as conquering king. He alone trods the winepress ( Isaiah 63:3). He alone brings forth the TRUE one world government of peace and rules in righteousness; impartially judging as many verses in Isaiah testify. Some verses can be taken symbolically but to not take Revelation 19 literally or somehow think Christ already returned in some mystical way is heretical thinking (see 2 Tim. 2:18)
There are so many verses in the Gospels that they are too much to quote here. The idea is that Christ showed numerous times His role in the Godhead as submissive to the Father. John 5:19 is an excellent example where Christ stated that He could do NOTHING on His own but what He sees the Father doing He then does. Some of these issues no doubt were unique to the time He came to die as a man on the cross; which could be the premise of Matthew 24:36 also repeated in the book of Mark. Even HE didn't know the day or the hour of the return of Christ.
Before going on we can learn a lot about the nature of God in this relationship; much like the submission of woman to man in a marriage. Somehow in the Godhead Christ follows the actions of God in His work. It is clear through the death on the cross that HE was indeed part of the Godhead but that God the Father also had to take a role in holding the whole universe together for if it was only Jesus then it would have ceased to exist at His death as I see it. The counsels of the Godhead no doubt were involved with these plans before the foundation of the world for this plan as ( Ephesians 1:4 is but one example; also see Revelation 13:8 for the end result of this predestined plan for those who would be saved).
The plurality of the Godhead is also mentioned in John 14:21 to 23. This shows the Father and Son; and no doubt the Holy Spirit seals us in the day of redemption as well. ( Eph. 4:30). Also of course there is John 3:16 about God so loving the world and sending His son that whoever believes in Him will be saved. '
Oneness argument #3 Arminianism. The book of John is excellent in showing the Godhead as well as elements of Predestination involved with this. UNDERSTANDING THE GODHEAD TIES INTO CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF PREDESTINATION. It also ties in with holiness (Argument #4). True holiness must stem from a new heart reflected in outer actions; not from our actions.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
Actually, we GOD's people, we are going together to meet JESUS, and He is coming to meet us, in time and space. So, each day that passes, He gets a little closer of the meeting point, and we who are walking in the way also get a little closer to Him, and the gap between us and JESUS decreases, and the moment will come when JESUS and we will arrive at the indicated time, in the place and space( Ephesians 1:3), as He combined with us, i.e. to be at the exact time and place of the glorious meeting. Hallelujah!
See, it is certain that the day of JESUS 'return is very very close.In my understanding it is the mysterious day 1.335- Daniel 12:12-, i.e.45 days after the end of the Abomination of Desolation of 1,290 days as was prophesied by Daniel. Dan.12:v.11 combined with Dan.9:v.27, both verses direct us to the majestic and indescribable event of JESUS's return.
Time is ticking,ticking,ticking; see,don't sleep,but if you're already asleep, wake up and get up fast, and take in mind that each passing day we are personally closer to JESUS.See how near He is. For meditation: Matthew 25:1-13
Jesus lived a sinless life by always choosing to exercise faith in God, never sinning, thus He did not deserve the curse of the law; yet took the curse upon himself and trade for humanity.
How many times have unbelievers and believers alike said, it is not fair that all of humanity would pay the price of eternal damnation because of one man's choice, Adam's decision.
Yet, the righteousness of God is seen in that Humanity is saved, with the penalty of sin paid for by one man's choice, Jesus decision to take our place.
There is both quality and justice in the trade; wherein God's righteousness is maintained, while at the same time displaying mercy and grace.
This is the reason for 1 Corinthians 15:22, which states: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
And 1 Corinthians 15:45, which states:
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
The only way that God could save fallen man was by Jesus becoming our kinsman Redeemer, by both purchasing us with His blood; while at the same time killing death for the sake of His family, "humanity" (And in the second coming destroying the enemies of his people).
Jesus stated in John 5:39:
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
All of God's Word has one purpose, it is the glorification of God ("Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." Isaiah 43:7), and His Son Jesus Christ ( Ephesians 1:20-22; Romans 11:36; Colossians 1:12-19).
It is Jesus that deserves preeminence in God's Word.
All of these Old Testament types and shadows ( Hebrews 8:5; 10:1; Colossians 2:17) and figures (Theologically referred to as "Expositional Constancy" meant as object lessons to paint the picture of the Messiah, so that He would be recognizable when He came.
You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.
Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill
His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.
My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.
2 Peter 3:7
&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.
What the Word of GOD says after weighing the content of your message, it is written in Isaiah 33:10-15:
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the PEOPLE shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off (the GENTILE peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWISH people), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who AMONG US shall dwell with the devouring fire?(GOD is a devouring fire, understand?) who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
2 Peter 3:7&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
To JESUS Christ, our Saviour, to Him be Glory both now and for ever. Amen.
25That which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26And he that overcomes,and keeps my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.
29He that hath an ear,let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
About Satan,the MAN of sin,son of perdition,the Word of GOD reveals:Is.14:13-14:
13Thou hast said in thine heart:
(1)I will ascend into heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8),I will exalt my throne above the stars of GOD(above GOD's stars?See Daniel 12:3, always be careful,perilous times now,also according Re.12:4.Take a look):
(2)I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north:(Why Satan intends to sit in the sides of north?Ps.48:2 reveals why:Beautiful for situation,the joy of the whole earth,is mount Zion,on the sides of the north,the city of the great King-JESUS-
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will be like the most High(clouds? Revelation 12:14& Isaiah 60:8).Satan,a former Cherub, ruler of Eden,intends to be equal GOD.Ez.28:1-10 reveal:2Thus saith the Lord God;Thine heart is lifted up,and thou say,I am a God,I sit in the seat of GOD,in the midst of the seas(nations);thou art a MAN,not God,though thou set thine heart as God's heart:
I will bring strangers,the terrible of the nations,against thee:they shall draw the Sword against the beauty of thy wisdom.
Now, even now, from now on, what will happen it's only and only the Judgment of GOD. It's a matter evil ones to render an account according to the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
In my vision, I see our Lord JESUS revealing through His angel- Revelation 6:14-17- the LITERAL fulfillment of Scripture you have quoted and interpreted it from Isaiah 2:21.
Revelation 6:14-17
14 And the heaven (heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 and 2Peter 3:7) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were MOVED out of their places. (Every religious, and politic, and economic, and social, and military structures will be moved/dissolved/destroyed, including the Dispensations of the OT and NT(heavens)will be dissolved). IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the Great Day(Lord's Day-seventh and last Day) of His wrath is come( Revelation 11:18); and who shall be able to stand?
The Word of GOD reveals unto us: Hebrews 4:12-13:
12 The Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do (we must render an account)
The Word is GOD, self-executing.
The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing. If the believers(each one) keep GOD's Word in the heart, it means GOD is in him, and he has Life because GOD is Life.
JESUS said: John 5:39-40:->39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have ETERNAL life(the Word is GOD,God is Life):and they are they which testify of me-JESUS.40 And ye will not come to me,that ye might have life?JESUS said: John 11: 26:Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.Believest thou this?Phi.3:20-21:-> 20 Our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ:21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body(this is not a magic,it is worked,understand),according to the working whereby He-JESUS-is able even to subdue all things unto himself.(as Luke 20:35-36.Take a look) .
Furthermore they have Light.Jo.1:4 In him-JESUS-was Life;and the Life was the Light of men.1Jo.1:5-7: ->5...GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all.6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him,and walk in darkness,we lie, and do not the Truth:7 But if we walk in the Light,s he is in the light,we have fellowship one with another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Corinthians 15:51-54
51Behold,I shew you a mystery;We shall not all sleep,but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment...at the last trump:for the trumpet shall sound,and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption,and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,and this mortal shall have put on immortality,then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,Death is swallowed up in victory.
The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing.
GOD BLESS
Greetings in Christ JESUS our Lord and Saviour
Here's below is what JESUS said to John in Patmos through His angel (in fact an Archangel- Revelation 1:12-13)
Revelation 21:3-8
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 and Philippians 3:20-21) saying, Behold, the TABERNACLE of GOD is with MEN( Revelation 11:15-18), and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and GOD Himself shall be with them, and be their GOD.
4 And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. --> Come up hither,
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
JESUS is the KING of kings - kings made by He Himself - Re.1:8 and 5:10, and LORD of the lords. Michael is a lord, a Prince of GOD. JESUS sent him to the isle of Patmos-Re.1:1. Revelation 22:8-9 clarify: 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down TO WORSHIP before the feet of the ANGEL which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship GOD.
JESUS is God- Hebrews 1:8, not an angel, nor Archangel. JESUS and Michael are two distincts persons. By the way, Michael the Archangel fought / contended against the Devil when he disputed about the body of Moses (by allegory we may understand Israel was the body of Moses), and now again he shall contend with the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, fighting/ disputing about the Body od Christ: now, even now, from now, in the time of Apocalypse, Satan now called red Dragon, he shall be cast out from this current heavenly environment- Ephesians 1:3-8- into the earth, and his messengers shall be also cast out with him.
Michael shall cast Satan into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.
Be careful or else get ready
In my post below:
The correct is Ephesians 1:3-8, not 1:38
Sorry
Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. From whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. (This is a process, a wor of our Lord JESUS, not a magic)
Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Ephesians 1:38 and 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and Daniel 12:3 Take a look.
In previous postings I have discussed many different applications to the scripture. In reality an atheist can gain much from an academic exercise in a literary study as anyone else to deduce historical narratives that correspond with archaeology or an English professor can find beauty in the acrostic patterns of poetry in the Psalms and other hidden places in scripture.
Luke 12:48-50 indicates that more is required to those given much (my paraphrasing). If we are searching for truth it is one thing; but if we claim we are Christians and want to play games cherry picking to avoid tough verses related to our conduct; or just seeking "pleasant" scripture snippets then we are doing what one well known media advertises (I'll leave that to the audience to figure that out). I am convinced one of the most dangerous trends are those who are knowingly living in rebellion and yet claiming "authority" to "name and claim; blab and grab; etc". Promises in scripture are conditional; and even those that are UNCONDITIONAL related to promises in the New Covenant are based on HIS accepting us in the beloved ( Ephesians 1:6). However you slice it on terminology related to Predestination or "free will" it is clear that God chooses to reveal His Son to the elect ( Matthew 11:27). Just WHO the elect is; and whether God determines that ahead of time to those who will respond is beyond the scope of this study. The same idea is related to the PLAN of salvation; all those saved come to Christ the same way whether we consider the plan in general or the individual conforming to it. In short we only come to Christ one way through the Son; and as Romans 10:9 states that involves a verbal affirmation and a heart change which truly loves and embraces the Lord. Godly sorrow is associated with repentance; worldly sorrow leads to death ( 2 Cor. 7:10).
God's eternal purpose
Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18 Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God bless,
RLW
Part 3 Trinity discussion,
Do you believe the Son is a created being?
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20 Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16 Matthew 12:28 Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1 Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
See part 4.
Part 2 Trinity discussion
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:7 1 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 1:2 Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 1:2 Ephesians 6:23 Philippians 1:2 Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1 Genesis 1:31 Proverbs 16:4 Isaiah 45:18 Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
See part 3.
This is the fate of all the unregenerate who do not repent. A prime example is Pharoah during Moses' extensive dialogue with him warning of his fate defying God's will when it came to the sacrifice that his people desired in the desert. One should note that it was only requested for a short trip for this ceremony at first but eventually Pharoah drove them out and yet once again attempted to capture them to enslave them before his armies were destroyed in the Red Sea. Pharoah himself may not have been there but it seems his fate was sealed.
We see evidences such as 2 Chronicles 13:10-13 where Manasses repented after doing horrible abominations in the land; but we also see verses that state that even though they pray to God those devoted to destruction will not be heard ( Jeremiah 11:11 and Micah 3:4).
In seeing these examples; we ought to not test God as they were warned in the wilderness. We are warned not to rebuke a fool either ( Prov. 9:8). We should listen to God the first time; and realize that He chastens all He loves; and the opposite therefore indicates that without that discipline we are not His own as we see comparing Peter in the Bible to Judas Iscariot. All of us have a death sentence due to sin; but some choose to come to their end sooner through particularly evil lifestyles and behaviors.
No amount of pride brings joy; and our minds can only find solace in being left alone in our state once we have lost all pleasure in worldly things due to aging. Proverbs 5:14 talks about being almost in ruin in the congregation due to sins; but that is preferable to pining away alone; for Solomon saw this reality also in Ecclesiastes seeing that all things apart from God were vanity. In short; a saved man sees His old life crucified; new life in Christ and the Body of believers his adopted family (see Ephesians 1:23).
Part two
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19 Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 33:11 Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you for your reply, yes, Genesis 3:15 tells us He will come by the seed of a woman, and that is exactly what we see happen in Mary. My understanding of John 1:1-5 is John's prolog at the start of his gospel like Genesis 1:1 is a prolog to the rest of Genesis 1. John starts with, In the beginning.
I see this beginning as the coming of the Messiah/Christ the beginning of Jesus's ministry because in John 1:6, John goes to John the Baptist as the witness of the one who was to come, the Light that darkness did not comprehend. This is the start of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit and God made Him the Messiah/Christ, Acts 2:36.
Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24, His role or ministry was to fulfill the law and the prophets in confirming the new covenant by His death and resurrection from the dead to pay the price for our sins. Daniel 9:27 is also about the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry but that is another topic. Jesus was the Messiah that was prophesied to come in Daniel. As I have discussed with Chris my understanding is Jesus was the beginning of the plan of God and like John 1:10 it is through Him not by Him.
Jesus, God' Son is first in God's plan of creation, and everything was created in and through Him and Jesus was begotten in the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Colossians 1:20. I know you may also not agree with that but that is how I understand, it is God the Father who is the creator.
The light was the word of God that dwelt in Jesus, the glory of the Father that dwelt in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 4:6.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
What my Lord JESUS said is that ' they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels (Example: Genesis 19:1-4. Take a look); and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
And Paul Apostle revealed: Philippians 3:20-21:
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8. Take a look. Are you in heaven or not? Or you don't know?); from whence also WE LOOK for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE OUR VILE BOVY(this is not a magic, this is a process, it is(will be) worked) that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the WORKING whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
And Paul said more: 1 Corinthians 15:24-27 and 51-55:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD( Revelation 11:15-18), even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For JESUS must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
51 Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all BE CHANGED, (not by magic, but a process)
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (in the last seven years of the world of Devil- Revelation 11:15 and 18.Take a look), at the last Trump ( 1Thessalonians 4:16 combined with Daniel 12:1-3.Take a look):for the Trumpet shall sound( Revelation 11:15) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Colossians 1:15-18 as in John 1:1 what beginning is John writing about, this gives a different understanding, In Colossians what creation is Paul writing about if we look at it as the start of all creation, the angels the counsels of heaven as we see in Job 38, they were before this earth or is Paul writing about the new creation. Is Paul referring to Jesus before He was crucified? Or is Paul referring to the risen Christ? In Christ is the resurrected Christ not the Christ when He first came.
One other thing and Giannis can let us know if I am correct or not in verse 16, by Him, the Greek is en auto meaning in Him as we see in 2 Corinthian 5:17 Ephesians 1:4,9 Colossians 2:6 to be in the risen Christ. Paul is talking about the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 to be in Christ is to be a new creature/creation and reconciliation, this is this world and in heaven as we see things in heaven is as bad as on this earth and Jesus Christ is to make all new.
Hebrews 1:3-4 Jesus was made much better than the angels, this after He was totally obedient died on the cross and raised from the dead and ascended to heaven above all that is in heaven and earth. and in Him all will be made new. He was made means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do. Matt. 28:18 John 3:35 John 5:26-27 John 6:39 what Jesus did and had was given to Him from the Father.
I know this is short, I may be away for a while but hope to reply more soon.
God bless,
RLW
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
Many of these themes are interchangeable with the verses quoted. The terminology isn't the greatest; as people can indeed grieve the Spirit as scripture indicates. I believe limited atonement is also the hardest thing to prove; I would say that "Effectual grace" is a much better term.
I wrote what I did in the first posting on purpose as many tend to have a sort of pride about which Reformer is their favorite or obsess on the subject making a doctrine be above the author and finisher of our faith Christ Himself. We can't fit our theological premise neatly with all scriptures in human understanding. I take; for example the politically incorrect stance that free will doesn't intimidate God with His predestination plans. There are distinct advantages to understanding these doctrines however.
1. It explains why those in our families and others we are close to and hear the Gospel for years never become believers.
2. It shows how God draws His elect from before a confession of faith (preserves our lives until coming to salvation) for believers.
3. It allows us to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Cor. 13:5) so that we can indeed claim His promises as something we actually possess because of a saving faith rather than "decisional regeneration" a term where people make a confession but their hearts are not in it.
I mentioned on an old posting how a small group split because God grants repentance ( 2 Tim. 2:25; etal). Some didn't want to preach the need to repent; although God grants the desire we must bear fruit and change our ways
Part 2,
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
See part 3.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:10 1 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
See part 2.
God bless,
RLW
I will send this to you as I feel we consider each other as brothers. I thought I was clear when I ended my conversation about the Trinity, but it does not sound like that is not understood with the comments I have read.
I will ask this question not to stump anyone, but it is one I have not ever answered.
First, I would like to say Jesus was before any creation, He is the beginning of creation, and all was created after Him and through Him, but it was in God's plan of creation that Jesus being appointed heir to, Heb 1:1-4. Jesus was the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and in the fullness of time He was conceived, Ephesians 1:9-10. There were two Adams and Jesus is the last Adam both Adams who were men who came into this world without sin. The first sinned and the last lived perfect totally obedient to the Father.
Question, Jesus was conceived and brought forth the only begotten Son of God to die for the sins of mankind. If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted, James 1:13, but it is clear Jesus was tempted as we are, Hebrews 4:15 and He died shedding His blood to cover our sins.
Can God die? If not, how are our sins covered? Could the works of the devil be undone if God fulfilled the law that was made for man? The law was made for man and a man had to live without sin to fulfill it. What is the meaning of Acts 2:24 if Jesus was not a man?
Sorry to send this to you but anyone can answer, Love you brother.
God bless,
RLW
God the Father granted Christ all authority on heaven and earth which sets forth the ultimate example of how God worked to reward the perfect obedience of Christ. It also goes against Satan's offer to worship him to have such authority. ( Matthew 28:18; Matthew 4:9).
One may question how Christ; who Himself brought all of creation into existence would have such a destiny. ( Colossians 1:16-20). In that situation; one may say that He was the Person to do the work that the Father had planned; and His agent as it were was the Spirit of God (hovering over the waters as it states in Genesis 1:2).
We realize in this that no servant is greater than his master. ( John 15:20). We all are nothing without Him; yet He will likewise exalt the humble with positions to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. In some sense we can say that Christ emptied Himself so that He could be our High Priest suffering in all ways but without sin. ( Heb. 4:15). As the second Adam He was able to keep from the temptations of the devil to fall unlike Adam; as well as fulfilling the law perfectly which no man could do. ( 1 Cor. 15:45-47).
It is hard to get our mind around these facts; that He who created all things would start from conception as a helpless babe and end as a sheep to the slaughter ( Isaiah 53:7); the Lamb of God which will forever be ascribed to His Name. Of course all of us who are saved are adopted sons; ( Ephesians 1:5) part of the eternal lineage of the rightous (as contrasted with the earth dwellers in Revelation 11:10).
Christ is returning as conquering king. He alone trods the winepress ( Isaiah 63:3). He alone brings forth the TRUE one world government of peace and rules in righteousness; impartially judging as many verses in Isaiah testify. Some verses can be taken symbolically but to not take Revelation 19 literally or somehow think Christ already returned in some mystical way is heretical thinking (see 2 Tim. 2:18)
There are so many verses in the Gospels that they are too much to quote here. The idea is that Christ showed numerous times His role in the Godhead as submissive to the Father. John 5:19 is an excellent example where Christ stated that He could do NOTHING on His own but what He sees the Father doing He then does. Some of these issues no doubt were unique to the time He came to die as a man on the cross; which could be the premise of Matthew 24:36 also repeated in the book of Mark. Even HE didn't know the day or the hour of the return of Christ.
Before going on we can learn a lot about the nature of God in this relationship; much like the submission of woman to man in a marriage. Somehow in the Godhead Christ follows the actions of God in His work. It is clear through the death on the cross that HE was indeed part of the Godhead but that God the Father also had to take a role in holding the whole universe together for if it was only Jesus then it would have ceased to exist at His death as I see it. The counsels of the Godhead no doubt were involved with these plans before the foundation of the world for this plan as ( Ephesians 1:4 is but one example; also see Revelation 13:8 for the end result of this predestined plan for those who would be saved).
The plurality of the Godhead is also mentioned in John 14:21 to 23. This shows the Father and Son; and no doubt the Holy Spirit seals us in the day of redemption as well. ( Eph. 4:30). Also of course there is John 3:16 about God so loving the world and sending His son that whoever believes in Him will be saved. '
Oneness argument #3 Arminianism. The book of John is excellent in showing the Godhead as well as elements of Predestination involved with this. UNDERSTANDING THE GODHEAD TIES INTO CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF PREDESTINATION. It also ties in with holiness (Argument #4). True holiness must stem from a new heart reflected in outer actions; not from our actions.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
Actually, we GOD's people, we are going together to meet JESUS, and He is coming to meet us, in time and space. So, each day that passes, He gets a little closer of the meeting point, and we who are walking in the way also get a little closer to Him, and the gap between us and JESUS decreases, and the moment will come when JESUS and we will arrive at the indicated time, in the place and space( Ephesians 1:3), as He combined with us, i.e. to be at the exact time and place of the glorious meeting. Hallelujah!
See, it is certain that the day of JESUS 'return is very very close.In my understanding it is the mysterious day 1.335- Daniel 12:12-, i.e.45 days after the end of the Abomination of Desolation of 1,290 days as was prophesied by Daniel. Dan.12:v.11 combined with Dan.9:v.27, both verses direct us to the majestic and indescribable event of JESUS's return.
Time is ticking,ticking,ticking; see,don't sleep,but if you're already asleep, wake up and get up fast, and take in mind that each passing day we are personally closer to JESUS.See how near He is. For meditation: Matthew 25:1-13
GOD BLESS
Part 9.
His Role
Jesus lived a sinless life by always choosing to exercise faith in God, never sinning, thus He did not deserve the curse of the law; yet took the curse upon himself and trade for humanity.
How many times have unbelievers and believers alike said, it is not fair that all of humanity would pay the price of eternal damnation because of one man's choice, Adam's decision.
Yet, the righteousness of God is seen in that Humanity is saved, with the penalty of sin paid for by one man's choice, Jesus decision to take our place.
There is both quality and justice in the trade; wherein God's righteousness is maintained, while at the same time displaying mercy and grace.
This is the reason for 1 Corinthians 15:22, which states: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
And 1 Corinthians 15:45, which states:
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
The only way that God could save fallen man was by Jesus becoming our kinsman Redeemer, by both purchasing us with His blood; while at the same time killing death for the sake of His family, "humanity" (And in the second coming destroying the enemies of his people).
Jesus stated in John 5:39:
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
All of God's Word has one purpose, it is the glorification of God ("Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." Isaiah 43:7), and His Son Jesus Christ ( Ephesians 1:20-22; Romans 11:36; Colossians 1:12-19).
It is Jesus that deserves preeminence in God's Word.
All of these Old Testament types and shadows ( Hebrews 8:5; 10:1; Colossians 2:17) and figures (Theologically referred to as "Expositional Constancy" meant as object lessons to paint the picture of the Messiah, so that He would be recognizable when He came.
See Pt 10
You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.
Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill
His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.
My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.
2 Peter 3:7
&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.
What the Word of GOD says after weighing the content of your message, it is written in Isaiah 33:10-15:
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the PEOPLE shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off (the GENTILE peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWISH people), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who AMONG US shall dwell with the devouring fire?(GOD is a devouring fire, understand?) who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
2 Peter 3:7&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
To JESUS Christ, our Saviour, to Him be Glory both now and for ever. Amen.