St Mark gives us the v.40 almost identical with that of Matthew ch.23 but the former uses it a point of departure in order to illustrate in real time of a widow parting with her only livelihood. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."(23:14). How truth reaches a congregation when the scribes and Pharisee teach is different than the widow whose penury offered no stumbling block from exercising faith. Jesus "And beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much."
The widow "but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living" places her life squarely upon whom it belongs. It catches the eye of our Savior.
In the Parable of the Rich Fool he had all the worldly goods but lacked the good sense. He was not rich towards God. So God tells him, " Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"( Luke 12:20) Jesus commends the poor widow who exercised faith most wisely. The scribes and Pharisee as we are familiar with the term applied 'active' faith so the poor and needy part with their living, in expectations of a windfall. Jesus calls their shepherding as 'devouring' instead.
God sent his only begotten Son in order to give whosoever believed in him, everlasting life. Jesus also tells how anyone may do the work of God. It can only be with Jesus, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?/Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29)
This is faith where the poor widow worked with God and for her livelihood she did not have to put on the mind of the scribes and Pharisees, devouring the gullible among their audience. For the faith of the widow was set in heavenly places with the Son.
"And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"(v.35). The scribes as mentioned here is a generic name for those who interpret the Law but they do not consider they are bound by it. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." For they says, and they do not."(Matt.23:2-3). Matthew is referring to the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. It is a metaphor for spiritual authority of the Law. Isaiah gives us a throne which is the ultimate authority "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."(Is.66:1)
Mark gives 'the woe to ye' discourse in Ch.23 as part of his doctrine which explains why the word of God is a two-edged sword (He.4:12).The Gospel is for salvation and if it is neglected it shall prove unto damnation. "And he said unto them in his doctrine," is consequential since it is the eternal word. In our times we could call what the scribes indulged was in Jesus talk. The saying of Jesus "but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not," is a sane advice for Christians who would want to live a godly life.
Jesus.
In vv.35-37 Jesus asks,"How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"The scribes erred in their textual criticism by omitting the intent and the integrity of the Psalm 110:1 This is what literal approach does. What they threw out is the everlasting covenant were seven days pendent on the day decreed for the Son. Along with it goes the significance of the Lamb slain, (Ps.2:7; Re.13:8) What happened in a megachurch where The elders had publicly disciplined a woman for refusing to take back her husband owes to their lack of understanding the word. As it turned out, the woman's fears proved true, and her husband went to prison for child molestation and abuse. The church never retracted its discipline or apologised in the 20+ years since.
St Mark gives us two commandments which shall explain what keeps the kingdom of God together. Merriam -Webster explains the scribe as a member of a learned class in ancient Israel through New Testament times studying the Scriptures and serving as copyists, editors, teachers, and jurists. One of their class, who was present when Jesus put to silence the Sadducees had a question to ask. He would have pored over the texts in order to interpret all the law and the prophets wanted to tempt Jesus as St Matthew puts it. That the ten commandments could be reduced to two must have come as a surprise to him. Never in his understanding had this truth dawned as to what Jesus signified. As the Lord from heaven the Decalogue began from one ("God is one") and also ended with him. This made both heaven and the earth on single yardstick in the matter of fulfilling the will of God. God is a Spirit and without its sovereignty and without obeying it a many may make it his business to preach but is an ignoramus as the Pharisees and the scribes who were out to destroy Jesus who was the fulfillment of the Law. When God sent his Son Jesus was a sign to which Prophet Isaiah had predicted (Is.7:14). They also heard him deliver the doctrine of hid Father which we know as the Sermon on the Mount.
The writer to the Hebrews place the role of the Son, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son," (He.1:1-2). In their opposition what did the ten in the Decalogue meant? They were judged already. The two commandments represented the deity and humanity of the Son. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.22:40). The Word as the sound and as a sign made the kingdom of God work. Their questions were to no avail because faith without works is dead. The discreet answer of the scribe is in "with all your heart, with all your soul etc., v.33
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."
The two worlds of the Spirit and of the body have only language which is faith. (He.11:3) When the Son said,A body hast prepared me it made the DNA between the world made to appear and the world unseen as the only proof of paternity. Thus the body of the Son is the visible image of the invisible God. ( Col 1:15) In the Parable of the Tares we have the good seed and the tares which can be known by their fruits. "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"(Matt.7:16)
So God is a Spirit sent his Son as the word become flesh.He did not ask the impossible when he went to the fig tree. The glory of the tree with seed in itself was determined according to the everlasting covenant, and the blessing of man in 'our likeness' connected as with the body God gave both. It was on the basis of faith and not by the will of the tares, source of which is by courtesy of the enemy who slipped in while the world slept. Caesars have come and gone, none of them has shown their glory endured. Had these men faith in God as the rewarder of the just?
In the hypothetical question the Sadducees put to Jesus vv.19-23 they were in error since the concept of marriage instituted by the tradition of their fathers was not founded on truth. "And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?/For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."(vv.24-25) In our times by false shepherds who dismiss works from their faith and espouse politicians as the Herodians, blame the victims for refusing to live with child molesters and perverts? Excommunicating Eileen and condoning the abuser if how the elders read the word of God. The tares shall continue but how long?
"And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words."Earlier when John the Baptist arrived at the scene, stirring up great many people who came to be baptized at his hand we read,"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?" John categorically rejected any notion that he was the Christ. It did not stop there."Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us."( John 1:19-22). Now the chief priests scribes and various sects who came to Jesus, "and they wanted to catch him in his words" firstly simulated fear for God, "They say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth" the same method that Satan employed to tempt Jesus and he also began," he said, If thou be the Son of God, command". The playbook of Satan is for whosoever who would want to be a power player in the world and the Herodians were one such in the time of Jesus, and in our times we have their ilk appearing in droves behind their candidate and sets Christian Visibility Day for other reason than they are sent. It is the spirit of wickedness at work, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."(2 The.2:8). For those who abide in Christ and seek to see the light in his light does Christian visibility Day make any sense? St Paul is clear in warning, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:4)
Jesus warned of this wicked and adulterous generation. Evangelicals want a sign and and Jesus refers to the son of perdition,Matt.24:15. the sign of our times Desolation is sure to come
St Mark cites Jesus referring the quote from the Psalm (118:22-23) which is identical in the gospel of St Matthew. The parable of rock is with direct reference to the judgment which we have it executed by an angel from above causing the fall of Babylon.(Re.18:21) Israel's failure is symptomatic of the wicked nations that have no interest in giving glory to the sovereign Lord of heaven and the earth. So they shall be judged with all other nations for their failure to produce fruits thereof. When they least expect God shall take the vineyard from the miserable husbandmen and give to others, Thus the parable centers about the Son who also is the Rock of Ages. In his rejection Israel committed a fatal error and it is to which the above mentioned quote from the Psalm alludes.
"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?/Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt.21:42-43)
Mark gives us the answer of Jesus, "What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others"(v.9). St Matthew sets him as a symbol, as the rock of offense and as the stone of stumbling. "And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44)
"And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way." (v.12) The chief priests scribes and the Pharisees would try to destroy Jesus somehow.
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4Mark 12:291 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3Ephesians 6:231 Thessalonians 1:12 Timothy 1:2Titus 1:42 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
I understand your passion and I believe you may have misunderstood parts of my post; I am sorry. Your first question is yes, I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered the scribe and said, Mark 12: 29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And yes, I do, but am I perfect, NO.
I do not belong to any denomination; I have attended many denominations but Catholic and I am in my 70s and there is not a church close to me now that I feel comfortable going to. John 1:1 I will say my understanding is different and too long to explain in this reply maybe another thread.
What I meant about Matthew 28:19 is in this verse Jesus told them to go baptizing people in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. People use this to support the Trinity doctrine but nowhere in the New Testament is anyone baptized in the name of the three, people were only baptized in the name of Jesus not that there was no baptizing in the New Testament, but they were only baptized in the name of Jesus.
As you listed Acts 4:10-12 only by the name of Jesus and "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. And that name is who they baptized people in the New Testament not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian. Can you show me where that was said or was taught anywhere in the New Testament?
I am sorry we do not agree on this, and I hope this helps you understand my last post, and may we be guided by the Holy Spirit in our study for the truth, we are one body.
Hi, don't sweat the small details. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. The Holy Spirit has already found you. God will direct you as needed: remember, His will not yours, be done. So don't push yourself. And, for now, be content as you simply read the Bible and keep this in your Heart:
Mark 12:28-34
Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Trust in Jesus and all will be well; even in regard the Enemy. The Enemy is currently in panic-mode, as he knows his time is short and his days are numbered. All the horrors of the world and the attacks on the minds of children from certain 'proud' folk is all part of the (already failed) plan to undermine the Kingdom. God's Kingdom is already here. This world was bought and paid for with Jesus' Blood. The enemy has no power over those that are saved. So, have no fear, God's Kingdom is here. Yes, there's going to be a bit of trouble, but everything is going according to God's Plan and all will be to His Glory. Hold fast, enjoy your new-found Life and Trust In Jesus. Blessings to You.
Hi Shell, if I may..As GiGi replied, so many translations up to the KJV publishing in 1611 were not always written by council/competent authority so as King, King James appointed competent council giving them the authority to conclude one book, the KJB version(ONLY according to original documents, which there are thousand upon thousands of) & still has not changed. I have a 1698 copy that is 'Jot per Tittle' the same as my KJV from last yr.
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
Hello Dgjot, Haven't heard from you for a while. Are you doing o.k.?
I agree with you that many are deceived, both inside and outside of the church. But God know who are His and will bring the elect to salvation, even from very surprising circumstances and cultures. We can continue to pray for those we know who are without Christ and also hope to speak the "words of life" o the Gospel of Jesus to them, often we hope.
It is good to have you posting here again. I pray that you are uplifted in your spirit and enjoying peaceful, joyful fellowship in the Lord.
Mark 12:32- And the scribe said unto him (Him=Jesus)
Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
This was before Jesus was crucified, and God raised Him from the dead, and He ascended into heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down to earth to dwell among us.
Jews and Mozlems to this day, deny that Jesus is the Son of God, and reject Him and Salvation through Him.
You can't reason with Jesus deniers. They have been deceived. Their minds are closed. All you can do is pray for those people.
The preverbal question that comes up is what comes first...in this case is it Christmas or pagan stories of a similar nature? If you are already determined to be a diehard atheist; then I suppose you could automatically designate the story of the birth of Christ (which you can see is in those verses as well as the start of other Gospels) as a late version of say Semiramis or the countless mother and child mythologies involving a virgin child; or offspring from the "gods"; etc.
The genealogical descendants as you will observe are listed in Matthew from Joseph; but in Luke they are from Mary's lineage.
One point that is brought out in Matthew is the census; clearly the lineage of each family was well known in the list of descendants. There are some complexities involved which on a surface level may appear to be discrepancies. Nonetheless; the whole history of the O.T. had to have descendants for the Messiah to come through certain individuals. David was promised according to Mark 12:36 (referring to an O.T. scripture) that Messiah would be in his lineage.
The whole Christian faith hinges on God coming in the form of a man who could live as we did but without sin; and becoming the final atoning sacrifice. The O.T. sacrifices have been gone for nearly 2000 years; the occurrence of the curtain tearing in the Temple happened when Christ died. He had to overcome death and was Resurrected as well; all prophesied events. (See Luke 23:44-45). The virgin birth was promised in Isaiah 7:14. Christ had to not be born with the sin nature which all sons of Adam had (so wasn't from natural human seed). He had to take on our sins as the sacrificial lamb.
He had to be God (as God the Son and part of the eternal Godhead demonstrated as early as the Book of Genesis where God created man in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26). Only God can forgive; and Christ stating that He was the "I am" ( John 8:58) showed He was truly God as only God can forgive sins.
I agree all scripture is inspired by God, and I respect your understanding of this subject many accept that view. The line of Seth and the line of Cain or as you put it the righteous and unrighteous line.
Where my understanding comes from, is in all the verses the words sons of God in the Old Testament refer to angelic beings, Job 1:6; 2:1 context shows the sons of God are angels, also Job 38:7, says the sons of God shouted for joy when God created the earth, a man had not been created.
There are angels that God locked in the darkness for what they did that Peter and Jude witnessed that only Genesis 6 matches what Peter and Jude wrote.
I understand Matt.22:30 Mark 12:25 is taken angels do not procreate, Jesus said angels in heaven because of their spiritual being there is no need. Peter and Jude both said they kept not their first estate and left their own habitation, and they could not return and are now locked in the bottomless pit the same place Satan will be locked in for 1000 years.
So, my understanding of the term sons of God has two basic meanings. It refers to the angels, both good and bad, in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament, the phrase refers to believers in Jesus and through Him have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. By this adoption by Jesus, we become sons and daughters of God
"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4 KJV
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." John 20:28 KJV
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" Mark 12:29 KJV
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments." Revelation 16:7 KJV
Romans 10:9 , Luke 2:11, Philippians 2:11, 2 Corinthians 4:5
There is a phrase I heard while travelling: "Same, but Different"
This might explain the seemingly paradoxical relationship of the trinity or Godhead. Exactly how much the same are they and exactly how different are they? We don't know, we're only humans with limited capacity to comprehend this and no Earthly experience with this relationship. We only know what God's word says...
1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6
John 10:38
"...the Father is in me, and I in him."
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Acts 17:29
"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or sto
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;"
Like many times, in our current world: when things go as it's supposed to, not much is mentioned but when it's going wrong, much more said. There was much wrong mentioned about wrongly leaving out Widows, Fatherless children, etc. Matthew 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47, Job 22:9, Acts 6:1, Isaiah 10:2 please read in context, by reading all verses around the verses given, so you have the "whole story". They also were judged because of that * Malachi 2:17, Malachi 3:5, Deuteronomy 27:19
1Timothy 5, 1Corinthians 7, Deuteronomy 24:17,
I believe the Rules/Laws GOD gave forth to Moses for the Israelites was the ideal plan. These rules weren't not for "the rebellious nations, surrounding" probably because they may just disregard anyway.
I believe it's good if we look into the Laws & consider sincerely what we can apply today. Deuteronomy 14:29, Deuteronomy 16, we should share in our increase ( abundance ) Deuteronomy 24:19,20,21, elimination of greed, in every area
Deuteronomy 10:18,
James 1:27 , Matthew 25:35-41, Deuteronomy 26:13,14,
Today's sermon discussed aspects such as the verse saying that there is no more marriage in heaven. ( Mark 12:25). That seems cut and dry but everything else seemed to drift too much into what we enjoy here on earth (such as recreation; endless delicious meals etc.) My earlier comments reflected on service in heaven; which most believers in Christ should acknowledge (unlike those who don't look into the scriptures and think we are all floating on clouds someplace).
My issue is not that we won't have those pleasures in heaven; but again reflects what I said earlier that all the focus is on serving Him and rejoicing in Him. Christ surely has anticipated sitting down and drinking the "fruit of the vine" which He will do no more until He is in heaven with us ( Mark 14:25). That would presumably be at the Great supper of the Lamb but certainly could occur at other times as well. That surely does indicate that there will be fellowship among saints and Christ as well as with each other. There are also such things as unique names given to us that no one else knows but God and that person ( Rev. 2:17); and Revelation 19:10 also states the same for Christ Himself.
While it isn't necessarily wrong to reflect on what enjoyment of heaven will be like in our new Resurrection bodies; we shouldn't be so enamored with it that we drift away from rejoicing in the harvest; as well as the attributes of God. We also will be ruling and reigning on the earth; but won't be overtaken by all the unprecedented riches that the kings of the earth bring as tribute to the Lord. Heaven; of course will be ON earth (in terms of the heavenly city itself; that is). For God to restore His creation that surely also will be a thing to behold. Again; without salvation men's minds still won't be able to dissuaded from eventual rebellion despite 1000 years of material blessings on earth; since sin will still be present until the new earth.
If we wish to separate those "would be" believers who desire to go to heaven but have no compulsion to serve God from those who already are His bondservants and just would be continuing what they started to practice here on earth we can evaluate their love for God and obedience to obey His commandments ( John 14:15). There are many shallow; foolhardy and at times downright blasphemous concepts of "love" today which permeate much of Christendom; particularly in the "music industry". The concept of obedience because of love seems a foreign concept today; especially in our nation. How many social issues could be deflected if that were the case of more children in their family upbringing for their parents today? Surely; there is more to His love than us being bondservants; as He calls us "friends." ( John 15:15 in the very next verse!) To serve to the length of our own hurt is surely seen in Christ's ministry; not the least of which of course was the crucifixion and all the sufferings beforehand. We often neglect the extent of the rest of His public ministry; where He wasn't even able to mourn the death of John the Baptist; despite making a deliberate attempt at retreat to be alone in a desert place with His chosen few. ( Matthew 14:13). While the Son of Man came to serve and not be served ( Mark 10:45) while on earth; He is certainly worthy to serve and exalt for all eternity for what He did for us. For Him to lift Himself up is not sinful like with the rest of His Creation.
True; there are "pleasures for evermore at His right hand" ( Psalm 16:11). This has to be balanced with the rest of our reverent service toward Him. The shallow; sentimental emotional "love" is at best a tepid version of the Spirit; at worst just a hyped up emotional mindset which is of the world; or comes from occult persuasion. Our emotions; mind; and soul must be incorporated into worship of God ( Mark 12:30).
St Mark gives us the v.40 almost identical with that of Matthew ch.23 but the former uses it a point of departure in order to illustrate in real time of a widow parting with her only livelihood. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."(23:14). How truth reaches a congregation when the scribes and Pharisee teach is different than the widow whose penury offered no stumbling block from exercising faith. Jesus "And beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much."
The widow "but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living" places her life squarely upon whom it belongs. It catches the eye of our Savior.
In the Parable of the Rich Fool he had all the worldly goods but lacked the good sense. He was not rich towards God. So God tells him, " Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"( Luke 12:20) Jesus commends the poor widow who exercised faith most wisely. The scribes and Pharisee as we are familiar with the term applied 'active' faith so the poor and needy part with their living, in expectations of a windfall. Jesus calls their shepherding as 'devouring' instead.
God sent his only begotten Son in order to give whosoever believed in him, everlasting life. Jesus also tells how anyone may do the work of God. It can only be with Jesus, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?/Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29)
This is faith where the poor widow worked with God and for her livelihood she did not have to put on the mind of the scribes and Pharisees, devouring the gullible among their audience. For the faith of the widow was set in heavenly places with the Son.
"And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"(v.35). The scribes as mentioned here is a generic name for those who interpret the Law but they do not consider they are bound by it. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." For they says, and they do not."(Matt.23:2-3). Matthew is referring to the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. It is a metaphor for spiritual authority of the Law. Isaiah gives us a throne which is the ultimate authority "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."(Is.66:1)
Mark gives 'the woe to ye' discourse in Ch.23 as part of his doctrine which explains why the word of God is a two-edged sword (He.4:12).The Gospel is for salvation and if it is neglected it shall prove unto damnation. "And he said unto them in his doctrine," is consequential since it is the eternal word. In our times we could call what the scribes indulged was in Jesus talk. The saying of Jesus "but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not," is a sane advice for Christians who would want to live a godly life.
Jesus.
In vv.35-37 Jesus asks,"How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"The scribes erred in their textual criticism by omitting the intent and the integrity of the Psalm 110:1 This is what literal approach does. What they threw out is the everlasting covenant were seven days pendent on the day decreed for the Son. Along with it goes the significance of the Lamb slain, (Ps.2:7; Re.13:8) What happened in a megachurch where The elders had publicly disciplined a woman for refusing to take back her husband owes to their lack of understanding the word. As it turned out, the woman's fears proved true, and her husband went to prison for child molestation and abuse. The church never retracted its discipline or apologised in the 20+ years since.
St Mark gives us two commandments which shall explain what keeps the kingdom of God together. Merriam -Webster explains the scribe as a member of a learned class in ancient Israel through New Testament times studying the Scriptures and serving as copyists, editors, teachers, and jurists. One of their class, who was present when Jesus put to silence the Sadducees had a question to ask. He would have pored over the texts in order to interpret all the law and the prophets wanted to tempt Jesus as St Matthew puts it. That the ten commandments could be reduced to two must have come as a surprise to him. Never in his understanding had this truth dawned as to what Jesus signified. As the Lord from heaven the Decalogue began from one ("God is one") and also ended with him. This made both heaven and the earth on single yardstick in the matter of fulfilling the will of God. God is a Spirit and without its sovereignty and without obeying it a many may make it his business to preach but is an ignoramus as the Pharisees and the scribes who were out to destroy Jesus who was the fulfillment of the Law. When God sent his Son Jesus was a sign to which Prophet Isaiah had predicted (Is.7:14). They also heard him deliver the doctrine of hid Father which we know as the Sermon on the Mount.
The writer to the Hebrews place the role of the Son, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son," (He.1:1-2). In their opposition what did the ten in the Decalogue meant? They were judged already. The two commandments represented the deity and humanity of the Son. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.22:40). The Word as the sound and as a sign made the kingdom of God work. Their questions were to no avail because faith without works is dead. The discreet answer of the scribe is in "with all your heart, with all your soul etc., v.33
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."
The two worlds of the Spirit and of the body have only language which is faith. (He.11:3) When the Son said,A body hast prepared me it made the DNA between the world made to appear and the world unseen as the only proof of paternity. Thus the body of the Son is the visible image of the invisible God. ( Col 1:15) In the Parable of the Tares we have the good seed and the tares which can be known by their fruits. "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"(Matt.7:16)
So God is a Spirit sent his Son as the word become flesh.He did not ask the impossible when he went to the fig tree. The glory of the tree with seed in itself was determined according to the everlasting covenant, and the blessing of man in 'our likeness' connected as with the body God gave both. It was on the basis of faith and not by the will of the tares, source of which is by courtesy of the enemy who slipped in while the world slept. Caesars have come and gone, none of them has shown their glory endured. Had these men faith in God as the rewarder of the just?
In the hypothetical question the Sadducees put to Jesus vv.19-23 they were in error since the concept of marriage instituted by the tradition of their fathers was not founded on truth. "And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?/For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."(vv.24-25) In our times by false shepherds who dismiss works from their faith and espouse politicians as the Herodians, blame the victims for refusing to live with child molesters and perverts? Excommunicating Eileen and condoning the abuser if how the elders read the word of God. The tares shall continue but how long?
"And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words."Earlier when John the Baptist arrived at the scene, stirring up great many people who came to be baptized at his hand we read,"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?" John categorically rejected any notion that he was the Christ. It did not stop there."Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us."( John 1:19-22). Now the chief priests scribes and various sects who came to Jesus, "and they wanted to catch him in his words" firstly simulated fear for God, "They say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth" the same method that Satan employed to tempt Jesus and he also began," he said, If thou be the Son of God, command". The playbook of Satan is for whosoever who would want to be a power player in the world and the Herodians were one such in the time of Jesus, and in our times we have their ilk appearing in droves behind their candidate and sets Christian Visibility Day for other reason than they are sent. It is the spirit of wickedness at work, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."(2 The.2:8). For those who abide in Christ and seek to see the light in his light does Christian visibility Day make any sense? St Paul is clear in warning, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:4)
Jesus warned of this wicked and adulterous generation. Evangelicals want a sign and and Jesus refers to the son of perdition,Matt.24:15. the sign of our times Desolation is sure to come
St Mark cites Jesus referring the quote from the Psalm (118:22-23) which is identical in the gospel of St Matthew. The parable of rock is with direct reference to the judgment which we have it executed by an angel from above causing the fall of Babylon.(Re.18:21) Israel's failure is symptomatic of the wicked nations that have no interest in giving glory to the sovereign Lord of heaven and the earth. So they shall be judged with all other nations for their failure to produce fruits thereof. When they least expect God shall take the vineyard from the miserable husbandmen and give to others, Thus the parable centers about the Son who also is the Rock of Ages. In his rejection Israel committed a fatal error and it is to which the above mentioned quote from the Psalm alludes.
"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?/Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt.21:42-43)
Mark gives us the answer of Jesus, "What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others"(v.9). St Matthew sets him as a symbol, as the rock of offense and as the stone of stumbling. "And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44)
"And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way." (v.12) The chief priests scribes and the Pharisees would try to destroy Jesus somehow.
Part 1 Trinity discussion
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
See part 2
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4 Mark 12:29 1 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17 Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 2 Timothy 1:2 Titus 1:4 2 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2,
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
See part 3.
God bless,
RLW
I understand your passion and I believe you may have misunderstood parts of my post; I am sorry. Your first question is yes, I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered the scribe and said, Mark 12: 29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And yes, I do, but am I perfect, NO.
I do not belong to any denomination; I have attended many denominations but Catholic and I am in my 70s and there is not a church close to me now that I feel comfortable going to. John 1:1 I will say my understanding is different and too long to explain in this reply maybe another thread.
What I meant about Matthew 28:19 is in this verse Jesus told them to go baptizing people in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. People use this to support the Trinity doctrine but nowhere in the New Testament is anyone baptized in the name of the three, people were only baptized in the name of Jesus not that there was no baptizing in the New Testament, but they were only baptized in the name of Jesus.
As you listed Acts 4:10-12 only by the name of Jesus and "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. And that name is who they baptized people in the New Testament not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian. Can you show me where that was said or was taught anywhere in the New Testament?
I am sorry we do not agree on this, and I hope this helps you understand my last post, and may we be guided by the Holy Spirit in our study for the truth, we are one body.
God bless,
RLW
Mark 12:28-34
Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Trust in Jesus and all will be well; even in regard the Enemy. The Enemy is currently in panic-mode, as he knows his time is short and his days are numbered. All the horrors of the world and the attacks on the minds of children from certain 'proud' folk is all part of the (already failed) plan to undermine the Kingdom. God's Kingdom is already here. This world was bought and paid for with Jesus' Blood. The enemy has no power over those that are saved. So, have no fear, God's Kingdom is here. Yes, there's going to be a bit of trouble, but everything is going according to God's Plan and all will be to His Glory. Hold fast, enjoy your new-found Life and Trust In Jesus. Blessings to You.
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
I'm glad that you are doing well. I am doing much better. Recovering from hand surgery now.
I agree with you that many are deceived, both inside and outside of the church. But God know who are His and will bring the elect to salvation, even from very surprising circumstances and cultures. We can continue to pray for those we know who are without Christ and also hope to speak the "words of life" o the Gospel of Jesus to them, often we hope.
It is good to have you posting here again. I pray that you are uplifted in your spirit and enjoying peaceful, joyful fellowship in the Lord.
Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
This was before Jesus was crucified, and God raised Him from the dead, and He ascended into heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down to earth to dwell among us.
Jews and Mozlems to this day, deny that Jesus is the Son of God, and reject Him and Salvation through Him.
You can't reason with Jesus deniers. They have been deceived. Their minds are closed. All you can do is pray for those people.
Sons of GOD: John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Psalms 82,= John 10:34-42, John 3:1,2,
The Hebrew word for Angel is "mal'ak" Sons of GOD in Hebrew "ben elohiym"
James 1:5, Colossians 2:8, 2Timothy 2:15,
Hopefully these are helpful
The genealogical descendants as you will observe are listed in Matthew from Joseph; but in Luke they are from Mary's lineage.
One point that is brought out in Matthew is the census; clearly the lineage of each family was well known in the list of descendants. There are some complexities involved which on a surface level may appear to be discrepancies. Nonetheless; the whole history of the O.T. had to have descendants for the Messiah to come through certain individuals. David was promised according to Mark 12:36 (referring to an O.T. scripture) that Messiah would be in his lineage.
The whole Christian faith hinges on God coming in the form of a man who could live as we did but without sin; and becoming the final atoning sacrifice. The O.T. sacrifices have been gone for nearly 2000 years; the occurrence of the curtain tearing in the Temple happened when Christ died. He had to overcome death and was Resurrected as well; all prophesied events. (See Luke 23:44-45). The virgin birth was promised in Isaiah 7:14. Christ had to not be born with the sin nature which all sons of Adam had (so wasn't from natural human seed). He had to take on our sins as the sacrificial lamb.
He had to be God (as God the Son and part of the eternal Godhead demonstrated as early as the Book of Genesis where God created man in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26). Only God can forgive; and Christ stating that He was the "I am" ( John 8:58) showed He was truly God as only God can forgive sins.
I agree all scripture is inspired by God, and I respect your understanding of this subject many accept that view. The line of Seth and the line of Cain or as you put it the righteous and unrighteous line.
Where my understanding comes from, is in all the verses the words sons of God in the Old Testament refer to angelic beings, Job 1:6; 2:1 context shows the sons of God are angels, also Job 38:7, says the sons of God shouted for joy when God created the earth, a man had not been created.
There are angels that God locked in the darkness for what they did that Peter and Jude witnessed that only Genesis 6 matches what Peter and Jude wrote.
I understand Matt.22:30 Mark 12:25 is taken angels do not procreate, Jesus said angels in heaven because of their spiritual being there is no need. Peter and Jude both said they kept not their first estate and left their own habitation, and they could not return and are now locked in the bottomless pit the same place Satan will be locked in for 1000 years.
So, my understanding of the term sons of God has two basic meanings. It refers to the angels, both good and bad, in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament, the phrase refers to believers in Jesus and through Him have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. By this adoption by Jesus, we become sons and daughters of God
Thanks for your reply,
God bless,
RLW
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." John 20:28 KJV
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:" Mark 12:29 KJV
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments." Revelation 16:7 KJV
Romans 10:9 , Luke 2:11, Philippians 2:11, 2 Corinthians 4:5
Amen.
Verses considered thus far: Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:11, Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:29
This might explain the seemingly paradoxical relationship of the trinity or Godhead. Exactly how much the same are they and exactly how different are they? We don't know, we're only humans with limited capacity to comprehend this and no Earthly experience with this relationship. We only know what God's word says...
1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6
John 10:38
"...the Father is in me, and I in him."
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Acts 17:29
"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or sto
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;"
1Timothy 5, 1Corinthians 7, Deuteronomy 24:17,
I believe the Rules/Laws GOD gave forth to Moses for the Israelites was the ideal plan. These rules weren't not for "the rebellious nations, surrounding" probably because they may just disregard anyway.
I believe it's good if we look into the Laws & consider sincerely what we can apply today. Deuteronomy 14:29, Deuteronomy 16, we should share in our increase ( abundance ) Deuteronomy 24:19,20,21, elimination of greed, in every area
Deuteronomy 10:18,
James 1:27 , Matthew 25:35-41, Deuteronomy 26:13,14,
Today's sermon discussed aspects such as the verse saying that there is no more marriage in heaven. ( Mark 12:25). That seems cut and dry but everything else seemed to drift too much into what we enjoy here on earth (such as recreation; endless delicious meals etc.) My earlier comments reflected on service in heaven; which most believers in Christ should acknowledge (unlike those who don't look into the scriptures and think we are all floating on clouds someplace).
My issue is not that we won't have those pleasures in heaven; but again reflects what I said earlier that all the focus is on serving Him and rejoicing in Him. Christ surely has anticipated sitting down and drinking the "fruit of the vine" which He will do no more until He is in heaven with us ( Mark 14:25). That would presumably be at the Great supper of the Lamb but certainly could occur at other times as well. That surely does indicate that there will be fellowship among saints and Christ as well as with each other. There are also such things as unique names given to us that no one else knows but God and that person ( Rev. 2:17); and Revelation 19:10 also states the same for Christ Himself.
While it isn't necessarily wrong to reflect on what enjoyment of heaven will be like in our new Resurrection bodies; we shouldn't be so enamored with it that we drift away from rejoicing in the harvest; as well as the attributes of God. We also will be ruling and reigning on the earth; but won't be overtaken by all the unprecedented riches that the kings of the earth bring as tribute to the Lord. Heaven; of course will be ON earth (in terms of the heavenly city itself; that is). For God to restore His creation that surely also will be a thing to behold. Again; without salvation men's minds still won't be able to dissuaded from eventual rebellion despite 1000 years of material blessings on earth; since sin will still be present until the new earth.
If we wish to separate those "would be" believers who desire to go to heaven but have no compulsion to serve God from those who already are His bondservants and just would be continuing what they started to practice here on earth we can evaluate their love for God and obedience to obey His commandments ( John 14:15). There are many shallow; foolhardy and at times downright blasphemous concepts of "love" today which permeate much of Christendom; particularly in the "music industry". The concept of obedience because of love seems a foreign concept today; especially in our nation. How many social issues could be deflected if that were the case of more children in their family upbringing for their parents today? Surely; there is more to His love than us being bondservants; as He calls us "friends." ( John 15:15 in the very next verse!) To serve to the length of our own hurt is surely seen in Christ's ministry; not the least of which of course was the crucifixion and all the sufferings beforehand. We often neglect the extent of the rest of His public ministry; where He wasn't even able to mourn the death of John the Baptist; despite making a deliberate attempt at retreat to be alone in a desert place with His chosen few. ( Matthew 14:13). While the Son of Man came to serve and not be served ( Mark 10:45) while on earth; He is certainly worthy to serve and exalt for all eternity for what He did for us. For Him to lift Himself up is not sinful like with the rest of His Creation.
True; there are "pleasures for evermore at His right hand" ( Psalm 16:11). This has to be balanced with the rest of our reverent service toward Him. The shallow; sentimental emotional "love" is at best a tepid version of the Spirit; at worst just a hyped up emotional mindset which is of the world; or comes from occult persuasion. Our emotions; mind; and soul must be incorporated into worship of God ( Mark 12:30).